Kelly Clarkson on Talk Show Drama, Her Love/Hate Relationship with ‘The Notebook’ and Divorce Album: “I Was Really Pissed Off”

On the plane after dropping her children off to her ex, the lyrics would pour out of Kelly Clarkson.

“To be just frank,” the star says, “there would be times I’d fly my kids to my ex and then I’d have to fly back and then wake back up hours later for work again. And I was exhausted physically, mentally, emotionally. On those flights back when I’m by myself, those were the really hard moments. And that’s when a lot of the songs were written because there’s so much that was going on and I was processing so much. Honestly, a lot of the songs were written in those moments on the way back.”

She continues, half-joking and half-serious: “I should have named the album On the Way Back.”

The singer went with another title — chemistry — and the 14-track set is an emotional roller coaster about Clarkson’s public divorce from talent manager Brandon Blackstock. She doesn’t hold back, packing the songs with piercing lyrics that will raise the hairs on your neck and also have you choking back tears — maybe even at the same time.

“I hear you started running your mouth again/Biting hands that feed ya,” she sings on “down to you,” which she wrote during her marriage. She explains, “I was going through some stuff and just really trying to get it out.”

She later sings on the bridge: “I can’t dance with the devil on my back/Need somebody who can meet me where I’m at.” 

And on the Western pop-sounding track “red flag collector,” she sings: “Sure, you can have the towels/You can take my money/Drag my name ‘round town/I don’t mind I changed it anyway.” (Clarkson, who has primary custody of their two children, will pay her ex $1.3 million and provide monthly child support as part of their divorce settlement.)

“Well, I was really pissed off,” Clarkson says of writing the boldly titled track. “Things get said and you hear about this divorce and situation, things go back and it’s the craziest thing. It’s not real things that get said and I was angry, but the foundation of that is hurt. And yeah, I just got it out. Didn’t I? I really said what I wanted to.”

Chemistry, her 10th album, is out Friday, and comes a month before she launches a Las Vegas residency at Bakkt Theater at Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino.

In an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, the Grammy and Emmy winner talks about the album, her (sort of) hate for The Notebook and love for It’s Complicated, working with Steve Martin, naming a song after legendary movie star Rock Hudson, and the drama surrounding her daytime talk show.

On “i hate love,” you sing: “And The Notebook lied/It’s Complicated is more like what happens/So you can keep Gosling and I’ll take Steve Martin.” Were you ever a fan of The Notebook at any point, or did you always think it was a lie?

I’m a fan of The Notebook. I love It’s Complicated. That song is very — even the chorus, it sounds happy, but it’s very not lyrically. So I was trying to find what films represent what was sold [to us]. I do think The Notebook, that kind of love was real, obviously, but I just meant what’s sold to us and what’s real. And so I feel like that was The Notebook and It’s Complicated for me. Then, I thought it was funny, I did the whole Steve Martin reference and then I asked him to play on it and he said yes, which I thought was incredible. So I still can’t believe he said yes, but he can’t take it back. It’s on there.

I literally emailed. I was like, “Does anybody have any contact with Steve Martin?” And I think it was via his publicist that I emailed and I was like, “Do you mind sending this to him? Totally cool, if not.” I did all the disclaimers and actually it wasn’t a long response and he got back. And I was so frustrated because I got a lot of jobs and I was doing the talk show at the time and I think The Voice as well, but I wasn’t able to go whenever he recorded his part. Only my producer was, so Jesse [Shatkin] was texting me, “I can’t believe this is my life.” He was so excited and I was like, “I’m so happy for you.” I really wanted to be there because I’ve never met him and I’m a huge fan. So anyway, he’s cool and I’ll do anything for Steve Martin at this point.

You mention Ryan Gosling in the song as well. Have you heard from Ryan?

I love Ryan Gosling. Let’s make this clear. I love Ryan Gosling. I think he is so funny and charming and handsome and cool. He just so happens to be Noah from Notebook, which I was not referencing in a bright light in the song. But I mean, come on, even Ryan Gosling would choose Steve Martin over Ryan Gosling.

The funny thing is Ryan also can sing — the remix of “i hate love” should feature you, Ryan and Steve.

Exactly. And he has to play the character of Ken from Barbie. He has to be that guy.

When he sings ‘90s R&B songs from his Mickey Mouse Club days, it’s crazy good.

Oh my God. Absolutely. And honestly, his comedic timing. Sometimes I feel like certain actors could have been comedians because he’s very … Well, which is funny, Steve Martin’s a comedian. But I don’t know, I love both of them. I just unfortunately used him as the one you didn’t want in my song. Everyone loves Ryan Gosling. He’s not hurting.

One of the songs is named after iconic actor Rock Hudson. What made you name the song after him and what inspired the track?

That’s my movie crush. That’s my favorite go-to guy in movies. And he has been since I was younger. I used it as a metaphor of, I really did feel like I never thought the kind of love I experienced in the first part of my relationship [existed]. Even throughout the whole [relationship], I never knew I could open up like that or love like that. I just didn’t know that was possible until it happened. And that’s the first time I’ve ever been in love, as well. So it was just a really beautiful thing. 

We [Clarkson and Blackstock] were from the same town and didn’t know each other, but knew all these same people. It kind of felt like a movie and we’d always reference that. It was just crazy how it turned out. Then it was one of those things where it’s like, everything that glitters isn’t gold. So it wasn’t exactly what everyone thought. The thing that’s upsetting is whenever it happens, people are like, “Oh, I never saw it coming.” And I’m like, “Why would you have seen it coming? Why would we have made that obvious?” Nobody wants to be like, “Hey, we’re struggling. Pray for me.” Nobody wants to talk about that when you’re trying to heal wounds or you’re trying to fix something. So everything isn’t always as it appears.

On the song, you reference your emotional 2015 single “Piece by Piece,” which was about growing up without your father but also watching your ex tend to your first-born child. Tell me about that.

Well, to be honest, when I wrote “Piece by Piece,” it was a very hopeful song. I wasn’t able to say everything at the time. A lot of that song is about what I desired and what I hoped and what I saw in someone. And it turns out I might not be singing that song again. It turns out that I maybe did marry into what I didn’t want to do in the first place. So it’s OK now. It wasn’t for a couple years, but I think that’s the thing about seeing red flags and seeing things that aren’t healthy and recognizing that and not holding on to hope and potential all the time in a relationship. So just a lot of lessons learned, which is, I guess, all you can hope for, getting that it wasn’t all for naught.

I remember when I interviewed you years ago when “Piece by Piece” came out, you mentioned that hearing the song back wasn’t going to be hard but performing it live would, and then fast-forward to that emotional American Idol performance, I could see months later what you meant. What is it like with these songs when you hear them back or when you rehearse them?

Every time we release a new single or a little sneak peek of the album, I wanted people to get a sense of not only the song, but hearing it live is different. I’m a different singer live, and also I’m talking a bit, even if it’s humorous or whatnot, but I feel like it’s such a personal album that it deserved a little bit of story and background.

I just didn’t want people to hear one song and go, “That’s what happened.” It’s like, “No, it’s a roller coaster of different emotions.” And performing it live, I thought because I’d written it so long ago, I thought it was going to be easier. I did two rehearsal nights back to back and had no problems. Then I got out there and I started the show a cappella and no sound came out. I was like, “Oh, this is …” I think I went back to [the pain], because a lot of us do as artists, you go back into that moment so you can be a vessel for the message. So that was really hard. The first four songs of that show were really hard for me. So hopefully, we work out that little kink before Vegas. But yeah, it’s a really emotional record.

Was it therapeutic and cathartic to record these songs?

Oh yes, yes. That’s exactly what it was. I mean, I know it’s an album for other people at this point, but first and foremost, it was just therapy for me. I’m just happy that it’s finally out. It is interesting though, because it’s years ago, so it’s like a different chapter of my life and I’m in a different place now, so it’s interesting. I’m like, “Oh, she was sad.” That’s OK.

Some of these one-liners just punch in the gut. What was it like writing on this album?

For artists and writers — it’s probably the same thing for painters, sculptors, any kind of artists — it’s like you don’t even know what’s going to happen. You just need to get something out. You’re writing. You have no idea. It’s almost like an out-of-body experience; you’re almost figuring out how you’re feeling and what you should do and you’re playing every angle. Have I tried enough? Have I done that? You’re playing every possible path out in your head, so it’s very therapeutic. But it’s also hard because it’s my life. I’m not just writing and pretending, like making up a story and then we’re writing a song. I think that the hardest part is when it’s reality.

Was one of the goals that this album served other people who are going through a breakup or hardship? That the music can be something that lifts them up?

One-hundred percent. Just connecting to it. I think the worst part is just feeling alone. And it is not just because I’m in the public eye and nobody knows what I’m going through. It’s not that. It doesn’t matter what relationship, that relationship, nobody really knows the ins and outs of that, except for the two people in it. Right? No one will ever know. So it’s very hard going through something like that and separating from this person that you thought you were going to be with for the rest of your life.

And there’s such a ride. It’s a roller-coaster ride, which is why the sequencing is how it is on the record. It goes back and forth because that’s normal. That’s a normal thing to feel when coming out of a relationship. It’s not easy. It’s not like you just wake up one day and you go, “I’m done.” You know what I’m saying? That’s something that happens over years and it’s something to recognize. And to be able to have someone connect to “magic” or “lighthouse” or “mine” or “me,” those songs, and really listen and go, “OK, this is how I’m feeling right now.” And to know that you’re not alone in that is incredibly powerful, I think.

Your talk show has moved to New York City. How are you liking the city so far?

I love being here. I love more so that my son’s so excited. He loves it here. He’s 7 and is in love with New York City. And I’m working on it with my daughter, so that’s a little harder. I think a fresh start is going to be really healthy and good for us.

Since the Rolling Stone report broke about the toxic environment at The Kelly Clarkson Show, have there been any changes made?

Yeah, I mean, we were already planning because we were having L.A. people coming to New York and we were having the New York crew come in and our whole thing is connection, inclusivity, everything like that. So we were already planning on [addressing], “How are we going to marry these groups and make sure everybody feels like they’re valued and a part of the team?” And that there’s not like, “Oh, they’re the L.A. team, the New York team.” So we already had that mentality before any of this happened. 

I definitely was blindsided. But I think the important thing is, we get into this mindset of canceling everything or everyone. And that’s not unhealthy because it’s like, “OK then …” Because what you’re saying is every time somebody says something, then it’s just over. And that’s not how you work on things. You have to progress. You have to go, “Oh man, well, maybe we can do better at this. Obviously, we might have missed the mark here, so what can we do better?”

I know it sucks to have something, anything happen behind the scenes that you maybe didn’t know. But I think, also, it’s a great point. Season five, let’s start, let’s remind everybody who we are, not only on the outside, but on the inside and how we like to carry ourselves and how we like to … I don’t know, just proceed in everyday work life. A lot of us are older now. I’m 41. I’m like, “I don’t want to come to work with people not having a good time.” I don’t need to, I’d rather be in my ranch, if I’m being real. So I want everybody to feel happy and feel empowered and inspired. 

And I think that’s all that did for us is one, recognize: OK, there’s something wrong, maybe. I didn’t know when that first came out. So, how do we fix this? How do we be better and better examples? So we’re already doing that, and adding on to what we already had planned initially, just to make sure everybody feels included and a part of the team.

Interview edited for length and clarity.